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Revelation (BD-Design)

by Bert @, Wednesday, October 04, 2017, 21:36 (18 days ago)

Almost, almost ready for publication ... It is time to start talking about the new Revelation, a DIY bass system to combine with our Oris horns.

It took a while to come up with something new but we never stopped tweaking and experimenting!

Also busy with the Orelo and the Orelino but mostly finalizing the latest Sigma design replacing the previous systems giving the best of both worlds plus extra!

Like the Orphan M5 which is up for a while longer now changing a lot already for the better on its own league.

Both the new Revelation bass system and the Orphan M5 are truly a Revelation!

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Revelation

Revelation

by Gasper @, Friday, October 06, 2017, 08:34 (16 days ago) @ Bert

Can't wait :bass:

G.

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Teaser....

by Bert @, Friday, October 06, 2017, 10:42 (16 days ago) @ Bert

[image]

From left to rigth...

Orphean M5 - Oris 250/6.5 - Oris 250/8 - Oris 150

With the new Revelation bass system to support!

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Teaser....

by Rami, Saturday, October 07, 2017, 19:59 (15 days ago) @ Bert
edited by Rami, Saturday, October 07, 2017, 20:09

Looking good! Any specs yet? Looks like 2 elements per bin, im a correct? :)

Whats your plans for Orpheans? If I understood your message there is more plans for it. Just wondering should i order M5 crossover or wait for something "bigger"

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Teaser....

by Bert @, Sunday, October 08, 2017, 08:45 (14 days ago) @ Rami

Looking good! Any specs yet? Looks like 2 elements per bin, im a correct? :)

4 elements... :cool:

From 20Hz (DSP) upwards clean, real and dynamic bass with much less acoustical issues compared to standard (enclosed) bass systems.

Whats your plans for Orpheans? If I understood your message there is more plans for it. Just wondering should i order M5 crossover or wait for something "bigger"

Nothing bigger... the Orphean M5 is just right! :cool:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Teaser....

by Rami, Sunday, October 08, 2017, 13:08 (14 days ago) @ Bert

Are you still using BD15 in these?

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Teaser....

by Bert @, Monday, October 09, 2017, 09:31 (13 days ago) @ Rami

Are you still using BD15 in these?

Nope, this is a 12" version but a 15" version will follow soon and in there the BD15 can be used of course. Concept can be either 2 or 4 drivers each channel if you want to go for maximum efficiency.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Thursday, October 12, 2017, 19:48 (10 days ago) @ Bert

I bought the M3 Orphean Horns from you about 3 years ago.... I enjoy them very much.

Is there an 'upgrade path' to the M5?
Would this make anySense?

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Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Bert @, Thursday, October 12, 2017, 20:00 (10 days ago) @ Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I bought the M3 Orphean Horns from you about 3 years ago.... I enjoy them very much.

I know you do... :yes:

Is there an 'upgrade path' to the M5?
Would this make anySense?

Sorry but no upgrade options this time... the only way to get the M5 is to order new.

You could offer the M3 on this forum for sale though but it will be likely that most people go for the M5.

Best Regards,

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Thursday, October 12, 2017, 20:04 (10 days ago) @ Bert

I guess what I was asking is how much better are the M5 over the M3? And what exactly are the differences?

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Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Bert @, Thursday, October 12, 2017, 20:13 (10 days ago) @ Kevin

I guess what I was asking is how much better are the M5 over the M3? And what exactly are the differences?

How much better...

:swoon:

... every aspect you do not like now or things you would like to be better is a perfectly well description for the changes.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Jeroen, Friday, October 13, 2017, 15:16 (9 days ago) @ Kevin

Hi Kevin,

I can highly recommand the M5 filter. Bert send me a pair some months ago. When I swithed them with the M3 filters I was shocked. They sound so much better than the m3's; extended high tones, clearer midrange and bigger soundstage. Besides that the new filters make the Orphean horns even more senstive. (I had to turn up the volume of my chip amps for the bass by 4 dB.

The Orphean horns are powered by an 300b set amp. Recently I changed tubes, I had JJ 300b's first, I put Elrog 300b's ($) in. Although the Elrog tubes are fantastic, they made by far not such an improvent in my system as the new M5 filters do.

Regards,

Jeroen

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Friday, October 13, 2017, 17:17 (9 days ago) @ Jeroen
edited by Kevin, Friday, October 13, 2017, 17:39

So, are you saying that you running the M5 Crossovers with the M3 Horns? I had interpreted Bert's reply as this was not possible in my Upgrade path question.

Also, I had thought that the M5 used 16 ohm Drivers and the M3 had 8 Ohm Drivers??

So, I'm a little confused.

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Orphean M5 16 ohm and dedicated 8 ohm crossover...

by Bert @, Friday, October 13, 2017, 19:17 (9 days ago) @ Kevin

Hi Kevin,

So, are you saying that you running the M5 Crossovers with the M3 Horns?

M5 is related to the crossover only... you have 8 ohm drivers and the new crossover (8 ohm version) works just as great on those! :yes:

There is an 8 ohm and a 16 ohm crossover, the new Orphean M5 release comes with a 16 ohm driver.

I had interpreted Bert's reply as this was not possible in my Upgrade path question.

Not possible upgrade in the sense of exchange new for old to reduce costs ...

I hope all is clear now?

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orphean M5 16 ohm and dedicated 8 ohm crossover...

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Friday, October 13, 2017, 19:23 (9 days ago) @ Bert
edited by Kevin, Friday, October 13, 2017, 19:35

OK, so you're saying that you have the new crossover in a version that will work fine with my M3 Horns and associated drivers? And this would be an 'Upgrade' over what I currently have?

If so, how much would it cost to get me a new pair of these Crossovers at the same address you shipped my Orphean system to? (You can give me the price in Euro)

Also, is the M5 Horn any different than my M3 Orphean Horn?

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Webshop updated...

by Bert @, Friday, October 13, 2017, 19:35 (9 days ago) @ Kevin

OK, so you're saying that you have the new crossover in a version that will work fine with my M3 Horns and associated drivers? And this would be an 'Upgrade' over what I currently have?

Yes, correct! :yes:

If so, how much would it cost to get me a new pair of these Crossovers at the same address you shipped my Orphean system to?

I have just updated the website with the new upgrade information.

http://www.bd-design.nl/index.html?target=d71.html&lang=en-us#P65

I am still waiting for the final Revelation drawings to be able to update the website completely... but now I can skip that part as being done. :good:

Costs for you 633,30 (excluding import duties and wire transfer fee)

Also, is the M5 Horn any different than my M3 Orphean Horn?

Nope! Why? :grin:

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Webshop updated...

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Friday, October 13, 2017, 19:41 (9 days ago) @ Bert
edited by Kevin, Friday, October 13, 2017, 19:47

I was asking if the horn was different than mine, as I was trying to figure out exactly what the differences were between the M5 and the M3... As I had asked in an earler post.

What is the lead time on a pair of these? I ask because I am leaving for the winter in early December..... If they were shipped much after 11-15, I would wait until I get back. I can Paypal you and I'll pay the fees.

What is the physical size of the new crossovers? Similar to the M3s?

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Webshop updated...

by Bert @, Friday, October 13, 2017, 19:51 (9 days ago) @ Kevin

I was asking if the horn was different than mine, as I was trying to figure out exactly what the differences were between the M5 and the M3... As I had asked in an earler post.

The Orphean is still the same Orphean... same horn!

What is the lead time on a pair of these?

5-10 days

What is the physical size of the new crossovers? Similar to the M3s?

Yep...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

You Have Money !!

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Friday, October 13, 2017, 20:10 (9 days ago) @ Bert

OK, I just sent you some $$$ via Pay Pal.... I added extra $$ for the Pay Pal fees. If it's not right, let me know and I'll straighten it out.

So do you prefer the 16 Ohm Drivers over the 8 Ohm Drivers? --- In other words how much of the upgrade to the M5 System will I end up with; adding these crossovers?

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Thanks !!

by Bert @, Friday, October 13, 2017, 20:29 (9 days ago) @ Kevin

So do you prefer the 16 Ohm Drivers over the 8 Ohm Drivers? --- In other words how much of the upgrade to the M5 System will I end up with; adding these crossovers?

No preference.. the 16 ohm combo is just a bit more mild on amps that do not like low impedance dips.

The 8 ohm version' lowest impedance is 3.5 ohms, the 16 ohm version shows 7 ohms as absolute lowest impedance and therefore more easy on the amp at those frequencies giving 6dB more headroom before it fails.

But that is only when you try to reach for the limits (ie playing loud like an idiot), normal users will be more than okay with both versions.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Saturday, October 14, 2017, 15:15 (8 days ago) @ Jeroen

Are you running your Bass Bin amps off of your Power Amp or your Pre-amp? --- The best thing I did after getting my Orpheans was to run the Bass Amps off of the pre-amp.

SET amps usually have a hum that is hard to tame (As you probably know), and running the Bass Bins off the power amp transmitted the hum to the Bass Amps and amplified it to an annoying hum from my Bass Bins.

My system is quiet now and I can only hear any noise at all if I put my ear up to the speakers themselves.

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Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Bert @, Saturday, October 14, 2017, 15:46 (8 days ago) @ Kevin

Are you running your Bass Bin amps off of your Power Amp or your Pre-amp?

I do not have a pre-amp so there is not much to choose from... but fortunate, my main amps are silent (no tubes here!).

The best thing I did after getting my Orpheans was to run the Bass Amps off of the pre-amp.

SET amps usually have a hum that is hard to tame (As you probably know), and running the Bass Bins off the power amp transmitted the hum to the Bass Amps and amplified it to an annoying hum from my Bass Bins.

For better integration it is best to use the output of the power amplifier which is also handy to be able to exchange power amplifiers without changing settings (amps mostly do not have the same gain). If too much noise comes into the picture then the only option is indeed to use the output of the pre-amp (if silent too of course!).

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Saturday, October 14, 2017, 15:56 (8 days ago) @ Bert

My question was to Jeroen, as he mentioned that he was using 300B amps on his Orpheans.

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Jeroen, Monday, October 16, 2017, 11:54 (6 days ago) @ Kevin

Are you running your Bass Bin amps off of your Power Amp or your Pre-amp? --- The best thing I did after getting my Orpheans was to run the Bass Amps off of the pre-amp.

I run the bass amps (Hypex) off my power amp, because I couldn't get enough amplifaction via the preamp directly. At the moment I replaced the tube amp in the signal path to the Hypex amps by Solid state amps in order to get a more firm bass sound. I leveled the amplification of the solid state amps with the 300b amp for the horns. This setup works pretty well.


SET amps usually have a hum that is hard to tame (As you probably know), and running the Bass Bins off the power amp transmitted the hum to the Bass Amps and amplified it to an annoying hum from my Bass Bins.

It took me years to get a clean, hum and noisefree sound. (rebuilding the preamp, dedicaded AC current for analog and digital, etc. etc. Of course the quality of your playback system is really importent with such sensitive speakers as the Orphean horns.

My system is quiet now and I can only hear any noise at all if I put my ear up to the speakers themselves.

Good!

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Monday, October 16, 2017, 14:46 (6 days ago) @ Jeroen

It's amazing that your Pre-amp did not have enough signal for the Hypex amps. What kind of pre-amp are you using? A passive?

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Jeroen, Monday, October 16, 2017, 14:56 (6 days ago) @ Kevin

It's amazing that your Pre-amp did not have enough signal for the Hypex amps. What kind of pre-amp are you using? A passive?

I am using a 300b pre amp. The 'problem' isn't the preamp but the fact that the horns are much more sentive than the bass spreakers. (115 vs 100 dB) The hypex's don't have enough amplification when I connect them to the preamp directly.

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Monday, October 16, 2017, 15:02 (6 days ago) @ Jeroen
edited by Kevin, Monday, October 16, 2017, 15:11

Wow! I believe that the Hypex have 600 watts per channel when bridged!... I am also using the Hypex amps and have no problem getting plenty of Bass out of them.

Also, your 300B power amp should only be putting out about 8 watts..... I think there are plenty of people (including Bert) that run Solid State amps with much more power on their Horns than 8 watts.

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Jeroen, Wednesday, October 18, 2017, 18:02 (4 days ago) @ Kevin

Wow! I believe that the Hypex have 600 watts per channel when bridged!... I am also using the Hypex amps and have no problem getting plenty of Bass out of them.

Also, your 300B power amp should only be putting out about 8 watts..... I think there are plenty of people (including Bert) that run Solid State amps with much more power on their Horns than 8 watts.

In my case it didn't work out well to connect the Hypex directly to my preamp, even not with 2a3 amps, only 3 watt of output..

I read an old post of yours in 2013. You wrote you were using Altec multicell horns. I was wondering if you like to Oris/Orphean horns better and for what reason.

Thanks for your reply in advance

Orphean M5 'Just Right'..........

by Kevin @, Minneapolis, Wednesday, October 18, 2017, 18:12 (4 days ago) @ Jeroen
edited by Kevin, Wednesday, October 18, 2017, 18:26

Yes i upgraded to the orphean horns about 3 years ago. The altecs with my drivers really only went down to about 500hz and the bass bins cut out at 400hz. So it left a hole. The oris are also more coberent with the combined tweeter. I was using a separate tweeter with the altecs.

BTW. I use 2a3,45 and 300b amps with my hypex and orpheans. Are you sure you have them bridged
For maximum power?

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