Next Speaker Project

Hello all and greetings from the UK; this is my first post here.

I'm currently using Lowther EX4s in a pair of Ketil Parow's 'All Fun Horn' cabinets and continue to enjoy my music with them (rest of the system is a Vacuum State modified Sony SACD player and a Transcendent SE-OTL amplifier).

Anyway, I'm tempted to venture into new territory and have been looking at the DIY Orphean horn, which, I guess, is positively viewed around here. The questions start around what to couple it with to infill the bass region.

I could stick with Bert's bass units (are drawings available for these anywhere?) but am tempted by some corner horns, such as the Eckhorn ATS/ATK - my listening room is around 5m by 4m so using the corners would seem sensible? I assume mounting Orpheans on top of corner bass units would be acceptable, with some experimentation on alignment?

I've seen the material on the Eckhorns that was listed on another topic here but I don't do German and some of the plans material seems to be missing. Also, it's difficult to determine what sort of match they would be for the Orpheans - they appear to not hold up to the frequencies that the Orpheans operate from? I'm also struggling to understand the difference between the ATS and the ATK? Can anyone help? Are full plans available?

I would also be keen to hear any recommendations for alternatives?

I'm sure there will be more questions but that will do for now....

Ray

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I could stick with Bert's bass units (are drawings available for these anywhere?) but am tempted by some corner horns, such as the Eckhorn ATS/ATK - my listening room is around 5m by 4m so using the corners would seem sensible? I assume mounting Orpheans on top of corner bass units would be acceptable, with some experimentation on alignment?

Hello Ray!
Welcome here! Since you are already have EX4 driver I would suggest you to go with Oris 150. :grin: This will give you more freedom to use it with corner horn...

I've seen the material on the Eckhorns that was listed on another topic here but I don't do German and some of the plans material seems to be missing.

If you need help, I have all the plans for ATS and for ATK too, but I have to check my archive.... :read:

The main difference is in the "deepest" frequencies which they are able to produce, but also in the numbers of the folds (see pictures at http://lowther.de/lowther/subwoofer/ats_atk.asp) and according to that - time delay.

I would also be keen to hear any recommendations for alternatives?

I was using ATS (see Showroom "Gasper old"; now I am selling them for 350 Euro but I think that Slovenia is too far for you :grin: ). I would strongly recomend you to go full BD-Design; perhaps with Compact bass for the start... :bass:

I'm sure there will be more questions but that will do for now....

Please do not hesitate to ask... :good:

Regards,

Gasper

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Thanks Gasper.

Although I have a significant investment in the EX4s I'm thinking I'll leave them alone at the moment, though I could be tempted by a good corner horn for them. I guess you would use them in a push/pull configuration, with an Oris on the front? Any recommendations?

If you can find drawings/info on the Eckhorns it would be gratefully received - I like to understand the construction of such things, even if I never build one and I need to start getting more detail into my thinking, such as whether the Eckhorn could cross over to an Orphean?

I've recently rediscovered horns with compression drivers, hence my interest in the Orphean. Are drawings available for the BD Orphean bass units?

Am I going to need a high power amplifier to drive bass units? I have a Bottlehead 2A3 SET amp as well as my Transcendent SE-OTL (which I assumed I would retain for mid/treble) but maybe the 2A3 isn't up to the job?

Questions, questions, questions - please bear with me.

Ray

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Thanks Gasper.

Although I have a significant investment in the EX4s I'm thinking I'll leave them alone at the moment, though I could be tempted by a good corner horn for them. I guess you would use them in a push/pull configuration, with an Oris on the front? Any recommendations?

Yes, it was long ago when someone try this but I do not think this works...I have pictures and plans for that too :cool:

If you can find drawings/info on the Eckhorns it would be gratefully received - I like to understand the construction of such things, even if I never build one and I need to start getting more detail into my thinking, such as whether the Eckhorn could cross over to an Orphean?

Send an E-mail and I will do it...

I've recently rediscovered horns with compression drivers, hence my interest in the Orphean. Are drawings available for the BD Orphean bass units?

I think yes, but not for the REF2010 :cool:

Am I going to need a high power amplifier to drive bass units?

Yes...

Regards,
Gasper.

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Thanks Gasper.

I've mailed you regarding the Eckhorns. Do you have any info on their frequency response - what sort of area will they need crossing over at?

And on the subject of crossing over, I am thinking an active Xover is better than a passive and opens up the possibility of using a non-plate amplifier (for the bass)?

Ray

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Upon reflection, I'm coming round to the view that Gasper's first suggestion of using my Lowther EX4s in Oris 150s has a lot of merit, and doesn't preclude an 'upgrade' to the Orphean at a later date.

So, that leaves the question of what bass unit to couple them with....

Ray

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Hi Ray,

I'd advise going with Bert's REF2010 woofer cabinets with BD15s. Then later on you can upgrade to the Orphean on top and modify your 150s using a kit from Bert for use with the woofers.

Russell

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Hello Ray, welcome to the forum! :hi:

So, that leaves the question of what bass unit to couple them with....

The REF2010 with active EQ and BD30mkII's would be optimal for the Oris 150's and the Orphean at a later stage.

Even as Ultra version once you are going towards the Orphean where you can modify your 150's to do their job in the lower mids... :yes:

Bert

http://forum.bd-design.nl/index.php?id=16387

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Thanks Russell & Bert.

I need to take this project as an iterative process, gradually building towards my end goal as circumstances permit - I took voluntary early retirement last Christmas and subsequently suffered a nasty injury that prevented me from being able to find another job until very recently.

I believe it would be best, initially, to invest in the best quality drive units (BD15) so I think I'll go with the compact or ultra bass cabinet for now. I can swap out to the REF2010 cabinets in due course. Once the bass units are are built I can purchase the Oris horns/crossover and transfer my lowthers over.

Regarding the construction of the compact or ultra bass units; through a friend I have access to CNC routing facilities 'at cost' so will prepare AutoCAD drawings of the panels to be machined. As a result of using CNC routing It would be very easy for me to apply the matrix construction principles to the compact or ultra at little extra cost, compensating for the internal volume consumed by the matrix by slightly deepening the cabinets. Any thoughts on this?

Ray

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Hello Ray,

I believe it would be best, initially, to invest in the best quality drive units (BD15) so I think I'll go with the compact or ultra bass cabinet for now. I can swap out to the REF2010 cabinets in due course. Once the bass units are are built I can purchase the Oris horns/crossover and transfer my lowthers over.

In the end this will probably be the best path to follow... or wait a bit longer and just do the REF2010 and save money that way. Why built something "twice" unless you like the extra work...

Regarding the construction of the compact or ultra bass units; through a friend I have access to CNC routing facilities 'at cost' so will prepare AutoCAD drawings of the panels to be machined. As a result of using CNC routing It would be very easy for me to apply the matrix construction principles to the compact or ultra at little extra cost, compensating for the internal volume consumed by the matrix by slightly deepening the cabinets. Any thoughts on this?

You could work around like that but then prepare for additional things you'll have to find out yourself too during the process. In the end it will always be something different, the REF2010 (but also the Compact) is tuned optimally with the right amount of damping, port tuning and resonance pattern and related to this the crossover settings and such were created...

Bert

PS. In case you are following the CNC route yourself then please let me know how much you've spend (woodwork only) on that...

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Thanks Bert, your wise words are providing an invaluable steer for me...

On the crossover topic, is any filtering applied to the mid/treble element. I know there is a filter for the bass section and I'm wondering if the mid/treble is 'full-range', being allowed to fall away naturally at the low end?

Thanks again

Ray

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Hello Ray,

On the crossover topic, is any filtering applied to the mid/treble element. I know there is a filter for the bass section and I'm wondering if the mid/treble is 'full-range', being allowed to fall away naturally at the low end?

Some do and some do not...it basically depends on what you prefer I guess.

Operating without crossover is not optimal (heavy load on the driver and possible damage if played too loud at subsonic frequencies). Under normal circumstances it is okay and the risk is low...

With crossover the driver will have less to do leaving more energy for the frequencies it should do and better integration (better sound) but crossover parts take away things too...

It's always a compromise and therefore depending on what you prefer.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Thanks Bert, I ask because I'm interested in filtering in the digital domain - came across this product that I might be able to utilise, though still lots of questions to resolve:

www.minidsp.com

My thinking was to just use DSP on the bass filter, feeding the mid/treble from my existing DAC.

Ray

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Hi Ray,

www.minidsp.com

I do not have any faith in such devices but prove me wrong...

Perhaps for a subwoofer but not used within a decent bass system. If people want to use it then they should also get a Class D or switching amp because you will then not hear any difference anyhow.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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