Bass amp (Oris Horns)

by diy martin @, Friday, January 22, 2010, 20:35 (2830 days ago)

What will be a suitable amplifier for the Oris 150 bass units , my budget is limited so it is not gone be a Crazy amp:blush:
At the moment i use a gainclone , not really a good match:no:

Bass amp

by madprofessor ⌂, 27777 Ganderkesee, Germany, Saturday, January 23, 2010, 10:22 (2829 days ago) @ diy martin

Hallo!
I´m using the BD-15´s in my system. What You can use are the modules from Thel (accusound 100) that are sometimes offered on ebay. Depending on the amp You use for the midrange/tweeter, You also should test Valve amps with substantial power. At the moment I´m doing some experiments with a kit from Ritter ( 2 x KT-88) but I´m not completely satisfied with the deep bass performance and control.
Best regards
Stephan

Bass amp

by diy martin @, Saturday, January 23, 2010, 11:54 (2829 days ago) @ madprofessor

Hello Stephan,

For the horn i use a SE 245 triode amp ,that sounds very nice.
The BD15 units need a amp with good control and driving power ,Bert did a demonstation at my home with de Crazy amps and at that time i know how a tight bass sounds :heat:
The price for a Thel kit or a powerfull PP tube amp is that high dat i consider to buy a secondhand power amp like a Rotel or NAD.

Best regards Martin.

Bass amp

by madprofessor ⌂, 27777 Ganderkesee, Germany, Saturday, January 23, 2010, 12:49 (2829 days ago) @ diy martin

Hallo Martin!

As You mentioned, the important thing is good control on the bass, like the Crazy A delivers. That is difficult with a Rotel or NAD.
You could try to search for a Mitsubishi DA-10 - they are cheap second hand and acceptable.
My experiments with a push-pull Kt 88 Amp showed, that I had to use the 4 Ohms tab for best results - i.e. control.
Another alternaivr would be one of the Hiraga or First Watt clones, when You build it Yourself.

Best regards
Stephan

Bass amp

by fu_man @, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 09:19 (2828 days ago) @ madprofessor

I had thought the Nuforce amps might be quite good as bass amps for the BD15's, they have very high damping values which could = good control? ... and they are small, efficient and reasonably high powered. (I've never tried them myself tho'.. a bit hard to come by in NZ)
Of course best 'must' be Bert's own DIY amps that he used to sell for the bass speakers but those have long gone from the website. They evolved into the Crazy amp i think.

Maybe a DIY amp offering will come back to complement the new DIY bass cabinets that Bert has currently under development? Who knows what plans are brewing:evil:

Bass amp

by diy martin @, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 13:25 (2828 days ago) @ fu_man
edited by diy martin, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 13:29

I saw this amp,

Rotel RB1070 power amp

Continuous Power Output2 x 130 watts 8 ohm load, 20 to 20k Hz,
maximumDamping Factor 500 (8 ohms)
Input Impedance/Sensitivity 33kohms /1.0 V.
Signal to Noise Ratio (IHF A)120 dB.
Weight (net):11.9 kg, 26.25 lb

Maybe this will do the job:rolleyes:

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Bass amp

by Bert @, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 20:54 (2828 days ago) @ diy martin

Hi Martin,

Rotel RB1070 power amp. Maybe this will do the job:rolleyes:

Perhaps it will, perhaps not. It's not about power, I have had a big Rotel in the past (100W class A) which was nice but not as good as I expect your Gainclone is...

If you can try before you buy then I would suggest just to try first...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Bass amp

by Bert @, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 21:04 (2828 days ago) @ fu_man

Hi Fu_man,

Long time... :wink:

I had thought the Nuforce amps might be quite good as bass amps for the BD15's, they have very high damping values which could = good control? ... and they are small, efficient and reasonably high powered. (I've never tried them myself tho'.. a bit hard to come by in NZ)

I had my try with the NuForce and the versions I tried were not good at all...yes, they do deliver power (but like a turbo diesel...).

After several experiments I tried the BD30 you refer to and the "ballerina" was back with nice tight, articulated and dynamic bass and not some wooooof sound.

To me the NF (in the bass) sounded like a PC calculating what it should do before acting where the BD30 already had done the job without thinking.

Of course best 'must' be Bert's own DIY amps that he used to sell for the bass speakers but those have long gone from the website. They evolved into the Crazy amp i think.

Yes they were and now these are reserved for completed systems only. The BG's used in them are limited (not manufactured anymore) and only last until I run out of stock.

Maybe a DIY amp offering will come back to complement the new DIY bass cabinets that Bert has currently under development? Who knows what plans are brewing...

No plans as I am looking myself for a replacement...thanks for starting the topic Martin!

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Bass amp

by Bert @, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 21:09 (2828 days ago) @ diy martin

Hi Martin,

At the moment i use a gainclone , not really a good match:no:

I would blame the tube amplifier your using as I gues you are still using the smaller transformer versions with the shifted limited frequency range(wound for high frequencies)?

Correct me if I am wrong...

You could test this yourself and try another amp as main amplifier and listen again to the bass or built a pre-amplifier separating the signal and play the bass with an active crossover.

Perhaps in combination with a Behringer 2496 with line transformer (galvanically shielding the signal ground) to cross and EQ the bass?

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Bass amp

by diy martin @, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 21:29 (2828 days ago) @ Bert
edited by diy martin, Sunday, January 24, 2010, 21:36

Hello Bert,

I have build a compleet new SE 245 tube amp with big :grin: humb's of iron made by Tribute.
The set sound a bit thin on voices , maybe i miss a bit of mid bass?
I guess becaus of the low input impedance of the Gainclone the filter is not working optimal ,the 100k pot.is part of the filter right:confused:

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Crossover...

by Bert @, Thursday, January 28, 2010, 17:14 (2824 days ago) @ diy martin

I have build a compleet new SE 245 tube amp with big :grin: humb's of iron made by Tribute.

Okay, then I guess this is not the problem. Is the bass actally different (better) than the amp you've had before?

The set sound a bit thin on voices , maybe i miss a bit of mid bass?

Are we talking about mid bass (voices) or bass bass (contrabass)?

I guess becaus of the low input impedance of the Gainclone the filter is not working optimal ,the 100k pot.is part of the filter right:confused:

The low input impedance makes it needed to use lower value resistors and higher values capacitors...but this is limited as the crossover is connected in parrallel to the mid-high range (filtering at high frequencies) and the amplifer itself which migth not like too high capacitance in parallel.

Best solution is to create a buffer but then you just migth make it an fully active crossover (fed by the main amplifier of course).

Bert

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Crossover...

by diy martin @, Thursday, January 28, 2010, 19:34 (2824 days ago) @ Bert
edited by diy martin, Thursday, January 28, 2010, 20:07

I go for the lack of contra bass , i got some good ideas for increasing the input impedance of the Bass amp from a member of Diyaudio.com.
A tube buffer with a 100k input impedance , go from a non inverting layout to inverting and the use of a T network ,this will also increase the input impedance of the chip.
Hope to build the modifications this weekend:grin:
I use the filter that you provide me Bert.

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Crossover...

by Bert @, Friday, January 29, 2010, 22:45 (2822 days ago) @ diy martin

I go for the lack of contra bass , i got some good ideas for increasing the input impedance of the Bass amp from a member of Diyaudio.com.

Okay, lets hope this fixes the problem. Another thing just came to mind is that the absolute phase of your new amplifier might not be the same as the amp you've used beforee (you were talking about thin voices). Try to exchange the absolute phase of the bass drivers and check again, if this does not do anything them move the top horn backwards or more to the front and liasten to the changes (including exchanging the polarity of the bass in the process)...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Bass amp

by leifchristensen @, Monday, January 25, 2010, 09:40 (2827 days ago) @ diy martin

pity the bd30 is no longer available as a kit,but one has to think in business terms....fair enough.
for me there´s no sustitute for the bd-30 on the reference dual bd15 enclosures in my trio setup:
fantastic rhytm and drive,excellent detailing,steel control.
best
Leif

Bass amp

by Gasper, Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 14:08 (2826 days ago) @ leifchristensen

Hope to be one of the "dream team" soon...:cool:
G.

Bass amp

by leifchristensen @, Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 14:12 (2826 days ago) @ Gasper

dream team?
you mean the new basstowers with bd-30?
best
Leif

Bass amp

by Gasper, Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 14:18 (2826 days ago) @ leifchristensen

BD15 - frontman
BD30 - backstage

:cool:

Bass amp

by leifchristensen @, Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 14:19 (2826 days ago) @ Gasper

me too
have new towers in order "chez Bert":cool:
best
Leif

Bass enclosures

by fu_man @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 02:05 (2825 days ago) @ leifchristensen

What do you mean??? :shame:
I thought we were all anxiously waiting for news to be revealed about the new design? There was a teaser last year. Are they being developed for you?
I have stalled my latest BD15 bass cabinet project in case i might be able to afford Berts latest offering.

What secrets do you hold? :grin:

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Bass enclosures

by Bert @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 09:26 (2825 days ago) @ fu_man

Hi fu_man,

What do you mean??? :shame:

Leif's towers are not the same as the new single BD15 bass enclosure which is still in development and don't forget the Diamond for which I finally have all the needed CAD drawings to be able to proceed (i.e. having 2 other prototypes made pretty soon).

Leif will have a pair of Quad BD15 towers, custom designed and build for him. Before that I had finished another custom design (a Double BD15 tower) for Thomas but pictures for those are not available in full glory yet as these are still packed waiting for the owner to enjoy after he is settled in his new home...

http://forum.bd-design.nl/index.php?id=16275

All bass systems are in the basis related (i.e. CNC'd matrix internal construction) and so will be the new ones (Compact and Ultra).

I thought we were all anxiously waiting for news to be revealed about the new design? There was a teaser last year.

Still is a teaser I guess and it will come when I have something to show... :yes:

I have stalled my latest BD15 bass cabinet project in case i might be able to afford Berts latest offering.

Sorry but as you can see, many things to do... :heat:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

Bass enclosures

by fu_man @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 13:34 (2825 days ago) @ Bert
edited by fu_man, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 23:54

and don't forget the Diamond

I've followed a lot of peoples attempts with open baffles and even started to play with some B200's myself a while ago*... my interest was first piqued with the beautifully proportioned Quasars.... but of all i have seen so far, none are quite so elegant in design as the Diamonds. hats off to you once again.

(*my OB attempt was fairly lame... I ended up trading the drivers for some beautiful silver IC cables from Antipodes Audio.. a much more satisfactory improvement in SQ!)


Leif will have a pair of Quad BD15 towers, custom designed and build for him. Before that I had finished another custom design (a Double BD15 tower) for Thomas

OK I understand now - I thought the picture you posted of the cellular matrix for the twin driver towers was the DIY release you were working on.


All bass systems are in the basis related (i.e. CNC'd matrix internal construction) and so will be the new ones (Compact and Ultra).

shame to hide it all in a box!

I have stalled my latest BD15 bass cabinet project in case i might be able to afford Berts latest offering.


Sorry but as you can see, many things to do... :heat:

Stalling my latest bass cabinet build is no problem at all... my wife would thank you for it... I have so many other things competing for my time - most precious of all are my 3 young sons. My next build project has to be one I can work on together with at least my eldest son. When he was 3 he helped me cast plaster moulds to join my horns to their stands... I think that was the best part!

take your time and enjoy your work... I'll be keeping a sneaky eye out :wink:

Bass enclosures

by leifchristensen @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 09:37 (2825 days ago) @ fu_man

I´ve been very happy with my dual BD15 single BD30 towers for several years
BUT
I want more headroom and be able to drop my JBL2245ELF subwoofers
SO
I´ve ordered a custom designed pair of QUAD BD15/DUAL BD30 bass towers for max eff.+lowend extension with substantially more headroom than my present ones
For practical reasons they are designed as 4 stackable TWIN BD15 cabinets with one BD30 per 2 drivers.
That´s it.
My present towers are sold locally to another happy Avantgarde Trio owner who´s replacing his 3 pairs of Avantgarde CTRL225 subs.
While waiting I´m playing in ALTEC-land:cool:
Best
Leif

Bass enclosures

by fu_man @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 13:43 (2825 days ago) @ leifchristensen

I´ve ordered a custom designed pair of QUAD BD15/DUAL BD30 bass towers for max eff.+lowend extension with substantially more headroom than my present ones

where is it all going to stop!

For practical reasons they are designed as 4 stackable TWIN BD15 cabinets with one BD30 per 2 drivers.

I think there should be a limit on how many Bd30's one person is allowed to own :cry::

That´s it.

wow wow wow wow!
Maybe you should take the time to reinforce your house foundations in preparation.

Bass enclosures

by leifchristensen @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 14:03 (2825 days ago) @ fu_man

It´ll NEVER stop: it´s an eternal evolutionary process
You get what you deserve:cool:
The house is a Norwegian "ALL-weather design" !:grin:
best
Leif

Bass enclosures

by madprofessor ⌂, 27777 Ganderkesee, Germany, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 15:57 (2825 days ago) @ leifchristensen

Hallo Leif!

With all that power, by the BD-15´s You should also have decent equipment stands, like my rack ( weight empty 350 kg) - stainless steel filled with sand and other usefull materials.
The boards are special alloyfoam mounted on stainless steel damped wires.[img]images/uploaded/201001271556264b60541a0ceac.jpg[/img]
Best regards
Stephan

Impressive rack...

by leifchristensen @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 16:02 (2825 days ago) @ madprofessor
edited by leifchristensen, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 16:18

... rack but the bd30s weigh nada
they´ll be mounted on damped fixings on the back of each bass cab.for the shortes possible speakercables to the BD15s
that rack would mean instant divorce in my home, since I´ve stretched it enough already:cool:
best
Leif

Special alloyfoam?

by fu_man @, Wednesday, January 27, 2010, 23:57 (2824 days ago) @ madprofessor

lots of crazy stuff around here... i like it!

The boards are special alloyfoam

that's sounds interesting... what is that?

Special alloyfoam?

by madprofessor ⌂, 27777 Ganderkesee, Germany, Thursday, January 28, 2010, 09:07 (2824 days ago) @ fu_man

Hallo!
The alloy foam is something developed for spacecraft.
I get it as foam ( like the boards on the rack) or as sandwich, with alloy plates 1 mm thick. The sandwich is very good to build cases for electronics.
The foam is good for EMV-damping, also inside enclosures.
I also used the foam, 5 mm thick to cover the outside of my BD-15 enclosures. The enclosures are rather big and can reflect a lot of sound from the midrange/tweeter. The foam helps here a lot, absoirbing ad defracting.
The boards in the rack work the same way + shielding the components from each other. Each board has a solid core for stability and also some copper-shield inside to improve conductivity.
The sandwich (15 mm thick) gives excellent shielding for electronics, is acoustical dead, avoiding microphonics.
I use this materials for years now, with very nice results.
Best regards Stephan.
More information You find (German language) at my homepage:
www.gecom-technologies.de / EMS-Material

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