Lowther will be back here again... (News)

...which is good news to me and you'll.

In the past I was forced to stop with Lowther as being a reseller for AER drive units. Lowther England never accepted this and forced me to choose between AER and their drive units.

As I do not like to be forced to sell or not to sell things because other people tell me made the choice easy and therefore I stopped selling Lowther drive units.

You all know by now that I do not represent AER drive units anymore which makes the way free to resell and work with Lowther drive units again.

I will add the Lowther page next week under the drive units section and explore them again. I haven't heard or seen any Lowther drive unit here for the past 5 years! Something must have changed during that time...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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why not GOTO and some serious horns?
best
Leif
Oslo

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why not GOTO and some serious horns?

Listen to the Orpheans first instead of focussing on price tags, size and oversized multi-way systems killing all the fun.

The Orphean MkII is a very serious thing...

Either way, please stay on topic as full-range drive units do not have much in common with GOTO.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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I honestly thought you were finished with the Lowthers (due to their inherent colourations) when you started with AER?
what´s changed?
best
Leif

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Hi Leif,

I honestly thought you were finished with the Lowthers (due to their
inherent colourations) when you started with AER? What´s changed?

No, the only reason was the manipulating part. Lowthers do have something that other drivers fail to do...

Lowthers do have their inherent colourations limiting the use of them to specific types of music, especially when used full-range. Playing small classical ensembles, Jazz, Vocals and such is not their major problem.

Playing a big orchestra or popular music is not something that a Lowther is doing too well, the AER is a lot better in that aspect making it a more suitable driver for multi purpose use but trading dynamics in return and that is where the Lowthers are still unbeatable among the full-range drive unit range.

I also sell Fostex drive units which are not all better than a Lowther but do give a decent quality for the money paid. Similar to the Hemp Acoustics drive units, low priced and seem to be able to produce an even and balanced sound from how they are build, perhaps even better than Fostex drive units (thinking of the Quasar and the Singular).

There is a lot of music to be found with full-range drive units. Not perfect though but thinking about simplicity and without using crossovers it shows things very much related to the music itself where normal hifi systems fail...

I am always looking for the best but also in terms of value for money and musicality.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Hi Bert:

Glad to see you are back with Lowther. We missed you.

Jon Ver Halen
Lowther America

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Glad to see you are back with Lowther. We missed you.

Thanks Jon, you'll have to fill me in on the details which I must have missed during my absence... :wink:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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good
I respect your philosophy, but the most important thing, is that we enjoy what we´re doing
and we´ll all benefit from your persistant persuit for the ultimate
best
Leif

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Hi Leif,

I respect your philosophy, but the most important thing, is that we enjoy what we´re doing.

That is what I mostly do....this is still a real hobby to me!

and we´ll all benefit from your persistant persuit for the ultimate

Thanks, always nice to hear and confirming that there are still people believing in what I am doing and try to achieve, there are always some ways to improve things to be found someday , even if you think it is impossible!

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Hi Bert,

I remember when you stopped selling Lowther. You were choosing for AER and definitely not against Lowther.

When I started out in the fullrange driver scene (when that scene was very different), there was a clear understanding about price and performance. Ranking based on price was Visaton-Fostex-Lowther-AER, ranking based on sound quality was Visaton-Fostex-Lowther-AER... :wink: People seem more dogmatic about which brand they like now, possibly because there is so much choice and you can't try everything out for yourself.

I really like the AER drivers. In your Oris horns, they are probably the most non-speakerlike sounding speakers I have heard. The cohesion and freedom of material-sound is amazing. I do agree that it was not the most dynamic sound I have heard. I haven't heard the Orphean in its final state, but the prototype stage was very dynamic at least.

I still really like my Lowther PM6c drivers. I haven't reached the full potential of them in my system. One thing I should still do, is get your phaseplugs. I keep putting it off until I have 'finished' the midhorns. Of course, being a DIY-er, I am never finished... The horns are pretty good now though (very little added sound, just letting the drive unit do its work), and I am left with that midrange stuff that people were complaining about... when I got started in the fullrange driver scene....

Anyway, good to hear you sell Lowther again, and I am interested to hear what the Hemp Acoustics stuff does. I just read that the ambition of the Hemp Acoustics people is to offer an alternative for every style driver on the market. Perhaps there is a low Q, rising treble fullranger for hornloading in the pipeline, too?

Ivo

PS: I am still very happy with my subhorn.

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hello Leif

i heard first time Goto's in italy this summer. Honestly, i did expect more. Not that i did not enjoy them. they had nice timbre, very accurate and surprisingly natural sound. But for what they cost, and the reputation they have, i expected more...one driver was the price of the pair of orpheans. It might be different with the more expensive drivers ( i heard a system with the lower range drivers, titanium diaphragms ) but they were just o.k. I definitively like the orpheans more.

rds Angelo

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Hi Angelo,

they were just o.k. I definitively like the orpheans more.

I never heard the GOTO's but I am sure that the Orphean's will outperform them in terms of integration and musicality, especially if combined as done with the Swing system.

One reason why full-range drive units can be so much enjoyable is the same reason why the Orphean is doing it so well (but then much better on all aspects...).

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Thanks to Mr. VerHalen I now have two pairs of Lowther PM4A ticonals and a pair of PM2A ticonals. The 4's are in two ORIS horns and the 2's in a Medallion. In my estimate, the PM4a is wonderful in the ORIS with the newer "whizzer" cone. I notice no shout nor colorations of prior Lowthers, especially after a few hundred hours of break in. Also, they are more "organic" and whole sounding than the EX4's that I formerly had and compared directly to the PM4a's.

I had several AER drivers including one pair deemed "FS" but none of them had the dynamic impact of the Lowther driver. However, they were more "mellow."

I think you have a very well-rounded product line now with Lowther, Hemp and Fostex for your cone-based drivers. BTW, Hemp makes some very expensive high sensitivity drivers which I have not heard. The lower priced ones do not have the sensitivity of the Lowther. None of them have the shear shock impact of the Lowther, IMO.

Bob

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Very good move. I am sure that the Lowther implementation is not a finished story yet and you will have more to add.

I am one of the very few who really knows how good Oris Swings are. However, I spent yesterday afternoon and evening listening to a simple, humble EX2 in a modified Hedlund horn, in a top notch DIY system (domestic SOTA TVC, DHT half-6C33C per ch SETs, AltmaGC Attraction DAC) and I still have shivers.

There are some things that no other speaker on planet can make. Only Lowther.

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Been running 'rolled cone' DX4s in Hedlunds for a few years now. Highly recommended.

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Very good move. I am sure that the Lowther implementation is not a finished
story yet and you will have more to add.

Thanks, I am sure I will have fun exploring the options. I do know that Lowther changed specific things on their drive units improving their performance and the Lowther scene did not sit still the past years either.

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Thanks, I am sure I will have fun exploring the options. I do know that
Lowther changed specific things on their drive units improving their
performance and the Lowther scene did not sit still the past years either.

There are some very interesting and unusual things happening to Lowthers after-market, Lowther themselves are quite interested in this process.
As I understand it the idea is using tiny dots of dense paint to introduce diffraction around the boundaries of the diaphragm. It diffuses reflections within the cone material from the cone:surround and cone:voice-coil interfaces

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1215579&highlight=#post...

Allow about 5 hours to read it all and keep an open mind. It won;t make sense at first, read the wiki comments from Bud a few posts down.

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It seems that some new views appeared while Lowther wasn't a part of the BD family.... Maybe I'm wrong but it is a growing family of people who beleive that Lowthers should be used only for the area which they do best - as a midrange driver - certainly not under 150-200hz and not above 6-7k. I think this goes along LyGC Olson views of coupling it with RAAL ribbon supertweeter and 15" driver(s) for low end duties. There is a lot to be explored in this configuration and it is also open for experiment to see if an open baffle is really better than front horn loading as some presumes. Whatever happens, I think there is a huge space here to be explored and I'm certainly looking forward to see some fresh results.

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Maybe I'm wrong but it is a growing family of people who beleive
that Lowthers should be used only for the area which they do best - as a
midrange driver - certainly not under 150-200hz and not above 6-7k. I
think this goes along LyGC Olson views of coupling it with RAAL ribbon
supertweeter and 15" driver(s) for low end duties.

I would go along with this, but dont think Lowthers are as limited as that at the frequency extremes.

At the top end, I let them roll off naturally to be supplemented by Fostex 90A's (no crossover). At the low end, the Hedlund takes them down without strain to about 75Hz, at which point I cross over to BD15s in 'reference' cabinets. Here the crossover is active (TacT 2.2X) and relieves the Lowthers of the burden of trying to cope with very low frequencies.

Cheers Chris

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Back to the fifthies? I remember several systems using the Lowther only for the midrange...

Open baffles do have their advantages (no pressure behind the driver) but using a front horn takes everything out of the Lowthers being way more dynamic, increased sensitivity, no corrections needed, crossing lower (open baffle >350Hz if no correction is used) and added body to the sound balancing the frequency respons to normal again.

In time the Quasar will have the Oris 250 in front as option and, if a Lowther is used, with a tweeter on top crossing at 12-15kHz.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Hi Chris,

At the top end, I let them roll off naturally to be supplemented by Fostex
90A's (no crossover). At the low end, the Hedlund takes them down without

No crossover used for the tweeter? :shame:

It will break down in time and distortion is very high but I assume you do use a crossover for the tweeter but none on the Lowther... :wink:

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Oh yeh forgot that. ****** amateurs!
I use a 1uF capacitor in series on the tweeter as high pass filter - nothing on the Lowther. No padding required, as the volumes of tweeter and Lowther are well matched.

Actually while I think of it, this has prompted a couple of questions.

Does it matter, sound wise, if the capacitor is on the + or - cable?

Also the capacitor is (I think) a pretty cheap polyprop left over from my days of experimenting to find the right value. What type of capacitor would give an upgrade at 'sensible' prices

Cheers Chris

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Hi Chris,

Also the capacitor is (I think) a pretty cheap polyprop left over from my
days of experimenting to find the right value. What type of capacitor
would give an upgrade at 'sensible' prices

A PIO (about 48 Euro each) would do very well after they're burned in, they sound a bit dull when new though. A Duelund VSF Copper or Silver foil could be used also...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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In time the Quasar will have the Oris 250 in front as option and, if a
Lowther is used, with a tweeter on top crossing at 12-15kHz.

The tweeter IN the phase plug is possible. Not exactly high end and not efficient enough but there may be something similar that suits your needs.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-025&CFID=5591747&a...

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Hi Mike,

The tweeter IN the phase plug is possible. Not exactly high end and not
efficient enough but there may be something similar that suits your
needs.

Not a good idea....basically it would have one advantage but for the rest it does not work. You already know the advantage...

2 major disadvantages with your suggestion is the lousy time alignment (very audible when placed like that, better have it completely away so that it isn't too obvious) and the lousy quality of the tweeter itself.

High frequencies is nice but not if it is only adding sissling noise...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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That must be a good reason not to use traditional coaxial drivers too.
Time alignment is the next thing I am trying to learn about.

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is a company called Teresonic - www.teresonic.com
I've had a chance to hear what they do with Lowthers. My conclusion is whoever is serious about these drivers should hear what these guys achieved with a variation of a TQWT horn and using Helmholz resonators inside to extend the low end and smoothen up the peaks. I don't know if it has to do with the new magnets or there are some wonders inside the cabinet, but it keeps everything good we all know about Lowthers but makes it less idiosyncratic.
I've heard 2 models, a really small standmouth monitor (!!!) type called Magus and the flagship Ingenium. The small one is probably less relevant for this forum although it perform quite sensational for such a small enclosure (-3db @ 55hz). In many aspects of the extension in a real room it is comparable to old quad ESL except that it is even more transparent, clean and can go very loud!
The real killer here is the big Teresonic Ingenium, the one that looks like a high, elegant letter S. My experience with Lowther is certainly far from yours guys, but I did hear Lowthers in different cabinets - sounding terrible and sounding great - but I've never heard it a) sounding so flat b) going so low. It's apparently measured -3db at 30hz - quite hard to believe! They certainly have no 101.5 db at the bottom freqs so they can't have a weight of the big cone, but big fun certainly they are and ****** hell they are seducing!
GC once you are back in Belgrade I'll take you to the manufacturer, it's a very noble place and the owner is a real gentleman (elec.engineer & opera singer), Bert - invitation open to you next time you are in Belgrade. Cheers!

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is a company called Teresonic - www.teresonic.com

Nice! Thanks for the link...

I am very sceptical reading the specifications though... (all systems are the same?). 30Hz @ -3dB isn't possible unless the Lowthers have some internal equalisation of some sort (passive filter techniques) and 22kHz is another end I do not believe.

I also wonder why the special driver for people getting deaf gives more high frequencies and still the specifications are the same?

I am sure that the speakers sound good and probably were playing in a relative small room or one that helps the balance in a positive way?

GC once you are back in Belgrade I'll take you to the manufacturer,
it's a very noble place and the owner is a real gentleman (elec.engineer &
opera singer), Bert - invitation open to you next time you are in
Belgrade. Cheers!

I am always open to hear myself and when I am in Belgrade (I will sure be there some day soon) then I would be happy to meet you there and give those speakers a listen.

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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hi bert

I am very sceptical reading the specifications though... (all systems are
the same?). 30Hz @ -3dB isn't possible unless the Lowthers have some
internal equalisation of some sort (passive filter techniques) and 22kHz
is another end I do not believe.

yes - a couple of illogical things here, i spotted them too while browsing the website. i think that the correct HF response is 12kh, not 22k - while LF response may well be true according to what i've heard. but low end extension is not to be misunderstood. this is not a sound of a big driver. it's still a lowther, it just can't move air. not sure that even such an extended LF would please anyone who is into the music that demands thump and kick.

one of the sale points is there are no any passive elements within the cabinet and they clain all the tricks are pure acoustics. a designer is especially proud that he minimized a number of elements between the CD and the listener in his room to only seven, the last change being putting lundahl transformers as interstage coupling instead of capacitors into his 300b. it's quite obvious he is into simplicity. at the end of the day, anyone can open them and see what is inside.

i think that the trick is done not only with playing with TQWT but with the helmholz resonators in the first place. from what i remember they should be a kind of a resonant box with a tunnel in it, a kind of a bass reflex box that if placed correctly within the horn (or whatever it is called in this case), can enhance the bass and smooth up rough edges of the soundwave. there are two resonators within each box. how they manage to avoid any cancellations and similar, including phase confusion between the radiated wave and the one that comes from inside of the box, is absolutely beyond my understanding. but i am quite confident that the designer of it has not only a golden ear (as a tenor singer) but a golden brain too (as an engineer specialized in applied electronics), who played with FRs both scientifically and as a music coiNoseur. you can really hear that from the way they sound.

what i found quite interesing is that the room was just a plain, normal 24-25m2 room - so not a small one at all - and that the speakers were just provisionally installed, actually not correctly positioned at all due to a furniture arrangement, the sweet spot was soooo huge and the sound was all over the room! OK GC knows that i hate listening speakers from the sweet spot but this was very interesting in a very positive way - plus when walking around the room i couldn't hear any anomalies, standing waves, effects of cancellation or similar. so i feel that the room couldn't be more normal or average.

i asked for the measurements and what i got was a revies of scott faller, whose writings i followed for some time and i can't say he is someone one should be more careful than usual with the audio journos. here it goes:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0906/teresonic_ingenium.htm

and here's his measured freq. plot:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0906/teresonic/frequency_response.gif

(it's small but it's pretty clear - they are pretty dead above 12k and they go low up to some 35hz for sure pretty linear).

and apparently he bought a pair of these. now he is working on an ultimate lowther test - he is checking 6 different lowther drivers in this cabinet. btw, the version i listened was the one with DX3, not DX4 as in his article.

cheers

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Thanks for the elobaration...

one of the sale points is there are no any passive elements within the
cabinet and they clain all the tricks are pure acoustics. a designer is
especially proud that he minimized a number of elements between the CD and
the listener in his room to only seven, the last change being putting
lundahl transformers as interstage coupling instead of capacitors into his
300b. it's quite obvious he is into simplicity. at the end of the day,
anyone can open them and see what is inside.

Yes, simplicity is good (!) but the connected system also makes the speakers sound as they do. Perhaps GC can bring the CrazyA's to have a listen with these also, then you will hear what the speakers are doing for real without the "boosting" effectcs from amps sensitive to impedance changes....

I can imagine the impedance peaks due to the internal resonators helping the bass a lot this way.

i think that the trick is done not only with playing with TQWT but with
the helmholz resonators in the first place. from what i remember they
should be a kind of a resonant box with a tunnel in it, a kind of a bass
reflex box that if placed correctly within the horn (or whatever it is
called in this case), can enhance the bass and smooth up rough edges of
the soundwave. there are two resonators within each box. how they manage
to avoid any cancellations and similar, including phase confusion between
the radiated wave and the one that comes from inside of the box, is
absolutely beyond my understanding. but i am quite confident that the

With ports and resonators it is possible to extend the deeper bass and to cancel standing waves or resonances somewhat (the Singular is using the same principle). Most bass heard comes from the tubies though.... last week I had a nice OTL tube amp here from a customer who wanted to hear his amps on my Swings. I had to turn down the bass with 3-5dB to bring back the balance!

Not to drag down the system, I am sure it sounds more than okay but showing inaccurate data trying to sell more is not my style. On the other hand, I can not blame him as most people have no clue or no ears attached to their head and need good figures to make them feel comfortable (or simply pay a lot so that it MUST be good!). Pittyful but often true..

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Bert, I'm afraid I missed the story on Singular. I tried to google it down but it seems the page is gone with your old website. Any idea where or how to learn more about it?
Thanks in advance and Happy Birthday, should be today ?
Cheers GOrdan

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I have built one (technically two), there should be a Singular topic in the forum index page then select singular in the pull-down at the top right of the screen.
I will post the PDFs I have in that topic for you.

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Bert, I'm afraid I missed the story on Singular. I tried to google it down
but it seems the page is gone with your old website. Any idea where or how
to learn more about it?

Here is a link where the building of a Singular pair is nicely described, drawings can be found there too...

http://boxenbau.woebking.net

Thanks in advance and Happy Birthday, should be today ?

Yes, today is the day I'm having a party...

Bert

--
BD-Design - Only the Best!

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Hi Gordan & Bert

Oh...see myself mentioned, so a reply is wanted? :wink:

Well, I have not heard the nice Lowther equiped speakers yet, and I do not expect more than all my own Lowther attempts showed and not more than I heard elsewhere where Lowthers were treated to the unlimited.

There is no real highs and there is no real lows in Lowther based constructions. Period. CaNot be done.

Either it is as you say Gordan, an "empty" bass sounding as a bass :shame:. There is IMO no way you can release a 30 Hz true saturated and in phase true tone, no matter what kind of passive amplification is added. Electrically or passive cabinet constructions.
Highs are not present and the peaks, no matter what cabinet is in use, are +- 10 db's. Scouts honor. No cabinets changes that.

With this I do not mean the Lowthers in any cabinet is not reproducing nice music. It has always been astonishing to hear it's smack which almost make you forgive it's imperfections.

I had my period with fullrange speakers, but it is only due to what the Swings are able to.

Gordan we shall of course meet and have fun with the tenor and Bert comming to Belgrade soon is of course a honor, as it were last time he was here. Now he being a year older, hahaha, and I didn't change my age in the meantime, maybe we can find some proper decent entertainment next time.

GC

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